Summary
A judge ordered that the DOJ`s redacted version of the affidavit in
the Mar-a-Lago search warrant be unsealed by Friday at noon. Trump lawyers
have until tomorrow to clarify his lawsuit requesting a "special master" to
review documents seized from his Florida estate. And as a wave of new
abortion trigger bans kick in, more states are seeing a surge in voter
registration, especially among women.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: The auctioneer said there was, quote, an
unexpected late surge by prospective buyers was one of those secret bids
from Rick Scott. That is tonight`s "LAST WORD". THE 11TH HOUR with
Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
[23:00:23]
ALICIA MENENDEZ, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, unsealing the affidavit, the
Justice Department is told, at least part of its reasons first search
warrant must be made public. But how much will be revealed about why the
FBI searched a former president`s home.
Then, as more states choke off access to abortion, voter registration,
especially among women now surging, plus the new legal challenges aimed at
those who profit in pushing lies. We`re going to ask the former Fox insider
about disinformation threat to democracy as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on
this Thursday night.
Good evening. Once again, I`m Alicia Menendez in for Stephanie Ruhle. Any
moment now, anytime between now and noon tomorrow, we could get to see at
least some of what it was the prompt of the government to seek the warrant
to search Donald Trump`s Florida compound. That search turned up at least
11 sets of classified documents.
Today, Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart ordered a redacted version of the
affidavit used in that warrant to be unsealed by noon on Friday. His
decision came less than four hours after the Justice Department submitted
its proposal for extensive redactions.
The judge accepted DOJ`s edits noting that full disclosure would quote,
reveal the identities of witnesses, law enforcement agents and uncharged
parties, investigation strategy, direction, scope, sources and methods and
Grand Jury information.
The order is the latest key step in an investigation that has heightened
political risks for attorney general Merrick Garland, and opposes a real
legal threat to the former president. And this one former Obama White House
official noted, Trump is no operating without the protection once provided
by the presidency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN RHODES, FMR. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Donald Trump for all of
his incompetence and risk taking and criminality. For four years, he had an
enormous infrastructure of people essentially running interference for him.
In the case of the White House Counsel`s Office, trying often not
successfully, but trying to keep them from committing crimes or violating
norms or violating protocols.
That entire infrastructure around Donald Trump went away the second that he
walked out of the White House, no longer was there a Bill Barr there to
kind of run interference for him on the Russia investigation in a clever
way. No longer was there, even a Pat Cipollone there to tell him when he
was about to be committing a crime. He didn`t he didn`t care about it.
So I think what we`re seeing and experiencing is this really was just
Donald Trump stripped of all the powers and protections and infrastructure
of the presidency, and frankly, without people with any experience or
expertise to keep him from walking into the legal, you know, huge, troubled
waters that he`s in right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ: The former president posted his latest objections to the search
and investigation on his social media site today, writing quote, radical
left Democrat prosecutors are illegally trying to circumvent for purely
political gain the Presidential Records Act, which I have done absolutely
nothing wrong.
Well, let`s fact check that right there. It`s worth noting the Presidential
Records Act actually establishes public ownership of all presidential
records and establishes that presidential records automatically transfer
into the legal custody of the archivists as soon as the President leaves
office.
POLITICO reports Trump appears to be leaning into the controversy over the
Mar-a-Lago search to boost what could be his next political act the pursuit
of a second term in office. That is said to include his political
organization sending out about two dozen fundraising emails complaining
about the search.
Trump`s legal team is facing its own deadline tomorrow. That`s when his
lawyers need to resubmit and better explain his lawsuit against the Justice
Department to a federal judge. Trump is asking that judge for a special
master, a neutral third party representative to review the documents seized
at Mar-a-Lago.
With that, let`s get to our leadoff panel. Alayna Treene, Congressional
Reporter for Axios, former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance who spent 25 years as
a federal prosecutor. She`s also a law professor at the University of
Alabama. And Jeremy Peters, a reporter for the New York Times. He`s the
author of the new book "Insurgency: How Republicans Lost Their Party and
Got Everything They Ever Wanted."
All right, Joyce, I`ve got some props tonight, some pages here from a court
document. So you have one with zero. This is zero redactions. You have one
with partial redaction.
[23:05:00]
And then you have one that is totally redacted. So we`re getting something
that looks like one of these documents. What are you expecting to see,
especially since he noted the DOJ is edits were narrowly tailored, and this
investigation is ongoing?
JOYCE VANCE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it`s an interesting question. I`m
still surprised that we`ll see anything at all surprised that DOJ
apparently will release this without appealing it. And what that suggests
is that they`ve figured out that there are portions of the affidavit that
can be released, most likely, that would be the story of the back and forth
between the Trump camp and DOJ involving negotiations to return these
materials, which as you point out, under the Presidential Records Act are
the property of the archivist and not of President Trump, whether we`ll see
much of anything else seems doubtful.
DOJ made very clear in its motion, that it would be dangerous to release
information about the identity of witnesses, it would be illegal to release
information obtained through the grand jury. So perhaps they limited
release, but maybe not that completely black redacted page that you showed,
Alicia.
MENENDEZ: Which, you know, would be very useful, right, that completely
black reductive majors, I guess, were you surprised by just how quickly the
judge responding when what the turnaround was on this? And just how sort of
unusual is this all together?
VANCE: You know, magistrate judges can be very nimble. Their
responsibilities are very different from district court judges, and they`re
often very good at ruling on these sorts of preliminary motions in cases
very quickly, but I will say this was surprising. The turnaround was fast.
He wants to get this one out the door.
MENENDEZ: Yes. Alayna, the National Review is noting Trump`s Mar-a-Lago
offensive, you can call it might be backfiring at first, of course, you had
Trump allies on Capitol Hill, and the GOP, very vocal coming to his
defense. You`ve noticed that`s changed?
ALAYNA TREENE, AXIOS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, I have. And just from,
you know, I used to cover the Trump White House and from my conversations
with people and just from paying attention what`s been out there. When the
search first happened, there was really this almost boasting and gleeful
reaction from people on the right, and allies of the former president who
were rallying around him in a way that we haven`t seen since he left
office.
But now, in the past few days, particularly after the publishing of a
letter that was released by John Solomon, a conservative, who`s also a
representative of former President Trump at the National Archives. That
letter really seemed as damning to some people even though he thought he
was putting it out there to help him. It showed the extent of the documents
more than 700 pages worth of materials that the former president had kept,
many of which was highly classified, and also showed the sparring between
the former president`s lawyers and the government, which led the government
to believe that Trump was either deliberately misleading them, or not being
totally truthful, and what he`s still possessed and wanting to exert
executive privilege.
But in the day since that letter, you`ve seen this within Trump read a lot
of people, there`s been this quieting down a bit of a cooling off period,
I`d call it where that original boasting is, you know, they`re worried it
doesn`t stand really on the same kind of ground as it did before. They`re
worried. You know, there`s this weirdness that I`ve been told of within the
former president`s orbit and in conversations of his top advisors that
think this could actually be problematic.
And we`re seeing that now. We`re really seeing all these people who were
defending him and were very loud on social media in the days after the
raid, have kind of become quiet and more silent in the past few days.
MENENDEZ: Well, Jeremy, there`s everyone that Alayna sort of name check
there. And then there was the wider world of Trump loyalists, the Steve
Bannon contingent, if you will, what is that faction of Trump world now
saying about this controversy nearly three weeks up to the search?
JEREMY PETERS, THE NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER: Well, this will probably come
as very little surprise, but they see it as much ado about nothing. They
see this as another attempt to scapegoat the former president, and I just
really don`t see another way that he or his most staunch loyalists can or
would spin this.
Yes, you have a handful of Republicans who, you know, were probably never
really solidly in Trump`s camp to begin with, who are saying that they`re
concerned about the rhetoric being directed at law enforcement that they
find that troubling, because, of course, you know, the Republican Party and
Donald Trump himself has styled himself as a defender of law enforcement.
But yet, when he is on the other end of law enforcement, they are suddenly
demonized by him and his followers. So I think this is the same playbook
that we have seen Trump run since the very beginning. It is how he
responded to the first impeachment and just how he responded to the second
impeachment, is how he and his followers are now responding to January 6,
and this FBI raid on his home.
[23:10:10]
And I really think that even if you did find that the nuclear codes were at
Mar-a-Lago, there would really be a collective yawn from most of his
supporters.
MENENDEZ: A collective yawn and at the same time attacks on the people who
have launched these investigations. I mean, all the rhetoric has resulted
in an alarming rise in threats particularly against law enforcement
agencies like the FBI. But anti-government rhetoric has also been focusing
on the IRS following the passage of the new law that clears the way for the
government to hire more IRS agents. NBC`s Gabe Gutierrez is following that
part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): In a letter to IRS
employees, Commissioner Charles Rettig, a Trump appointee says he`s
ordering a comprehensive review of safety measures at the agency`s
facilities nationwide.
In recent days, he writes, there has been an abundance of misinformation
and false social media posting, some of them with threats directed at the
IRS and its employees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are a target.
GUTIERREZ: The president of the IRS Workers Union in Chicago is telling
members to hide their badges when they leave the building.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s really unfortunate because we`re public servants.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
MENENDEZ: Joyce, they`re public servants, you won`t serve the public as a
federal prosecutor, what is it like to see this kind of political fury take
hold and be aimed at so many different institutions?
VANCE: We should be clear about where this comes from. This is the logical
outgrowth of Trump`s insistence on denigrating federal agents, federal
employees while he was president. He attacked on some occasions by name FBI
agents, DOJ prosecutors, members of the intelligence community. And now we
see it spreading in law enforcement, attacks on the FBI, attacks made
against IRS agents.
And this is I think, really, in many ways, an important sort of issue that
Republicans should have focused on long ago but failed to because this is
the destruction of our democratic institutions, institutions that we rely
upon to keep our communities safe. And when people can no longer trust
police, no longer trust law enforcement, the system tends to break apart.
It`s very difficult for the agents to live through this. But I suspect the
most difficult thing is knowing that this will make it more difficult for
them to do their jobs and more difficult to protect the American people.
MENENDEZ: Well, Alayna, many of these verbal attacks on the IRS, they are
coming from Republicans in Congress. Are there any GOP members on the Hill
who are saying, even if it`s only behind closed doors, we really need to
take the temperature down here?
TREENE: Oh, yes. I mean, I`d actually argue many of them are saying that
publicly, I think we`ve seen really the most pro-Trump far right members
and candidates as well. I mean, a lot of candidates across the country who
are up for election in November are taking on this defund the Department of
Justice, abolish the FBI type of rhetoric, and many people in Congress and
many Republicans are saying this is going too far.
And it`s a difficult, I think, path to navigate for many of these people,
because they are still pro-Trump and they still want, you know, the
political cover that comes with being one of his supporters. But at the
same time, they do think that some of these threats on government is
definitely going too far, particularly those who are saying defund the FBI
or abolish the FBI, like Marjorie, Taylor Greene, or Lauren Boebert, the
people we`ve seen who`ve made these kinds of attacks so far.
And just one other really quick one I`d make. I think a lot of this when we
look at the IRS in particular, relating to this, this discussion, it`s all
that comes back to attacks on federal bureaucracy as a whole. We know that
the former president if you were to be reelected, and he did this when he
was leaving office in 2020, he wanted to implement an executive order
Schedule F that would allow him to fire and replace many civil servants.
And I`ve spoken with many people who are looking to potentially run in 2024
as Republican candidates as well. And they are all embracing that message.
A lot of them are saying, Yes, we think federal bureaucracy has gone too
far we are against this IRS move and the Inflation Reduction Act we`re
against. We would like to see the removal of many of these career officials
and I think it all plays into the same thing. But I do think many people
argue that the calls to abolish and defund the Department of Justice and
the FBI is a little bit too far for them.
MENENDEZ: Jeremy, you`ve been reporting on the Dominion Voting Systems case
against Fox News. The company has a huge $1.6 billion defamation suit
against the network. This all centers around misleading information Fox
viewers, were hearing about Dominions machines in the days the weeks out
After the 2020 election. That`s an interesting details about who it is
that`s being questioned. Tell us more.
[23:15:06]
PETERS: This case is proceeding rather steadily and has been all summer
quietly in Delaware State court, and only recently has it become known just
how serious it`s getting. And to answer your question, what`s happening
this week? What`s been happening over the last couple of weeks is some of
the top stars at Fox News, including Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Dana
Perino, Steve Doocy, are all facing depositions by lawyers for Dominion
voting systems, which was the company that after the November 2020 election
became the target of pro-Trump conspiracy theories, these wild notions that
Dominion machines were somehow subtracting votes from Trump and adding them
to Biden then that this company was a pawn of the Venezuelan strongman Hugo
Chavez.
So Dominion became a target of these smears and Fox was one of the primary
purveyors of these smears. And now Dominion`s lawyers through building
their case, so far have been able to put people in depositions that
ordinarily you wouldn`t see in a case like this, because these cases often
get settled out of court, where they spare people like Sean Hannity, these
high profile names, the potential embarrassment of having to sit for
questioning in front of a hostile lawyer.
But this case is nowhere near being settled between the two parties
privately is what I`ve been told. And it very well could end up before a
jury a judge has set a trial date for next April, and it does go to trial.
This would be potentially one of the most consequential First Amendment
cases and cases, you know, the cut straight to the heart of the American
democracy that we`ve seen in a generation.
MENENDEZ: Jeremy, just today, two people pled guilty to stealing Joe
Biden`s adult daughter`s diary and selling it to Project Veritas. How is
there even an audience for something like that and put it all become an
even bigger legal problem for the outlet?
PETERS: Yes, I mean, look, there`s really no shortage of an appetite among
President -- former President Trump`s most diehard followers for any type
of dirt manufactured from whole cloth or with a kernel of truth to it on
the Democrats and the Biden`s and the Clintons. I mean, this is kind of
like an extension of the conspiracy theories that we saw surrounding
Clinton`s going back to Vince Foster. I mean, there really is an endless
appetite for this kind of stuff. So I`m not surprised that they did find a
willing buyer for this. And, you know, sadly, there are probably more
stories like this to come.
MENENDEZ: And we`re going to be talking about that type of disinformation a
little later in the show, Alayna Treene, Joyce Vance, Jeremy Peters, thank
you all for getting us started. Coming up, more familiar names or getting
invitations to testify in the Georgia election fraud investigation. We`ll
update you on where that stands tonight.
And later, as President Biden hits the campaign trail tonight, the growing
defense of abortion rights has some Republicans reassessing their take. THE
11TH HOUR just getting underway on a Thursday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:23:09]
MENENDEZ: In Georgia, former Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has just
received a subpoena to testify in the Fulton County investigation into 2020
election interference along with former Trump attorney Sidney Powell and
others in the former president`s orbit. Meanwhile, Georgia Governor Brian
Kemp is trying to quash a subpoena for his testimony in that same
investigation, or at least delay it. Here`s what his attorney told the
judge today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN MCEVOY, LAWYER FOR GOVERNOR KEMP: We`re in the middle of an election
cycle for really the most closely followed gubernatorial race in the
country. And this is happening coincidentally or otherwise, as this high
profile and politically charged investigation, Governor Kemp`s role in it
are reaching a crescendo. The intersection of law and politics in this way
we believe shouldn`t be happening on the eve of an election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MEMENDEZ: We welcome back Greg Bluestein, a political reporter for the
Atlanta Journal-Constitution and MSNBC political contributor. He is also
the author of "Flipped: How Georgia Turned Purple and Broke the Monopoly on
Republican Power."
Greg, there is a lot happening in your states. Let`s start with Meadows. He
has been ordered to appear in late September along with former Trump
attorney Sidney Powell. What does it say about the stage of the
investigation that it is now in?
GREG BLUESTEIN, ANLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, this
tells us that the investigation about whether Trump and his allies
illegally tried to overturn Georgia`s 2020 election is continuing to
tighten around the former president`s inner circle. Sidney Powell promoted
conspiracy theories about the election. And Mark Meadows made a surprise
visit to suburban Atlanta to observe an audit of absentee ballot signatures
being carried out by state officials at the time one of my colleagues
observed him saying he was trying to get the truth. Well, now prosecutors
are trying to get the truth out of him about why he was in Georgia.
MENENDEZ: We aren`t expecting the judge to make a decision about governor`s
testimony for at least another day or two. Your sense is his political
argument likely to be persuasive here.
[23:25:07]
BLUESTEIN: It`s tough. The judge didn`t really indicate how he`d rule on
Kemp`s request. He`s trying to make the argument that that he`s shielded
from testifying because of the legal concept of sovereign immunity. But
prosecutors say that shouldn`t be a factor at all in this case, because the
grand jury is probing potential criminal violations. So we`ll see how the
judge rules, hopefully within a couple of days.
MENENDEZ: Senator Lindsey Graham, still resisting a subpoena in this same
investigation. What do we know about that timeline?
BLUESTEIN: We`re just fighting this tooth and nail he`s put together and an
elite legal team that already successfully convinced the federal appeals
court to temporarily block his testimony based on constitution --
constitutional protections that are afforded to members of Congress.
The challenge now that that Lindsey Graham faces is his lawyer say he`s
only a witness right now. He`s not a potential target. But that could
change as this investigation deepens. And he could also potentially face
criminal charges, or at least being notified that he`s a target of the
investigation.
MENENDEZ: Greg, I`ve got two questions for you. One is I mean, we`re all
watching this raw following this, you are following it closer than most.
What are you looking for in the next few days and weeks? What are sort of
the towels going to be? And additionally, we look at this through the lens
of national politics. But I wonder how this is all playing out in your
state?
BLUESTEIN: Well, so far, the judge has been very tough. He has issued
rulings and statements of pushing these more testimony, pushing for these
subpoenas to be carried out. So I`m looking especially for him to continue.
I would be surprised if testimony from some of these key figures is blocked
by this judge. And also, of course, I`m really interested in why Governor
Kemp, you know, of course, he`s not a target and he`s not been notified.
He`s going to target whatsoever.
But he`s being asked on a series of he`s being he`s being interviewed on a
series of potential issues, including Donald Trump`s 2020 call to Brian
Kemp in December 2020 shortly after election, prosecutors want to know why
Donald Trump called him and what he pushed him to do.
MENENDEZ: Greg Bluestein as always, thank you so much for being with us.
Coming up, as even more states further restrict abortion access, the GOP is
looking even more like the proverbial dog that caught the car shifting
politics of reproductive rights when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:32:00]
MENENDEZ: A tentative victory for abortion rights in Idaho last night has
been followed today by a wave of abortion bans kicking in. Trigger laws
officially went into effect today in several states. Doctors in Texas now
face the possibility of life in prison for performing the procedure. And in
many of those same states, these new restrictions are driving more people
to the polls.
In Kansas alone, women now make up 65 percent of new registered voters.
That`s a nearly 16 point difference from before the Supreme Court leak
about ending Roe.
Here with us tonight. Errin Haines, formerly of the Associated Press and
now editor-at-large for the 19th, a nonpartisan nonprofit newsroom focused
on policy, gender and politics. And Tim Miller, a contributor to The
Bulwark and the former communications director for Jeb Bush. He is also the
author of the new book, "Why We Did It." It is good to see you both.
Errin, those numbers don`t lie. The issue clearly motivating voters of all
kinds. Right, what are you seeing?
ERRIN HAINES, THE 19TH EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Well, look, first of all, Alicia, I
have to point out tomorrow is the anniversary of the 19th Amendment, which
my newsroom is named for. And that was when American women got the right to
vote that they had long fought for.
So it is good that we`re talking about the statistics on voter registration
among women really surging, particularly in states where abortion rights
are under threat places like Kansas, which you pointed out, Pennsylvania,
where I am, Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Alabama, but this is really not
just about abortion, but also issues like voting rights, climate change,
the economy and education, all issues by the way that are women`s issues.
And more than that they`re the kitchen table issues that women care about,
and that we should talk to them about as voters in terms of what their
priorities are headed into November.
But you know, Alicia, I don`t want to leave men out of this because we are
seeing this on the ballot and the administration is framing this as an
issue of freedom. Men are running for office and taking up that message. I
mean, we see Beto O`Rourke in Texas who was out today with his first ads of
the campaign, taking on Governor Greg Abbott referring to Abbott`s abortion
ban. And those ads are going to air during the preseason showdown between
the Cowboys and the Texans. So don`t tell me that`s not about reaching male
voters.
MENENDEZ: Yes. And the framer unfreedom big part of what we saw in Kansas,
right, that that`s really what voters were coming out and voting about
government overreach. The President is in Maryland campaigning with
gubernatorial candidate Wes Moore tonight. Our own Stephanie Ruhle got a
chance to talk with Moore about the Roe decision for an interview. We`re
going to bring you in the days ahead, I promise but here`s just a slice of
that conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Whether it`s Roe versus Wade, people
starting to question, will gay marriage stay legal? To keep a realize that
all of these rights that it`s been amazing that we now have could start to
go away?
WES MOORE, MARYALND GUBENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I think there`s -- they are
now. You know, and I tell you, I think In Roe v Wade and the barbaric
decision that the Supreme Court made I think was a real wake up call for
people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:35:07]
MENENDEZ: Tim, we know it was a wake up call for Democrats motivating for
Democrats. How much of a wake up call? Was it for conservative voters?
TIM MILLER, THE BULWARK CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I guess I would just reframe
this a little bit as talking about the voters in the middle. And some of
those are voters who are very conservative. But, you know, we knew this was
going to be motivating. I think here`s the key group that a lot of times
doesn`t get talked about, actually, a plurality of the country believes
that there should be some limits on abortion, that it should be broadly
legal, particularly in the first trimester, particularly the all the
exceptions that are, you know, rape, incest, life health of the mother.
And so what we have now that has really benefited Democratic candidates is
that Democrats are being seen as kind of the party of status quo when it
comes to abortion rights. And Republicans are being seen as the party that
wants to put in place these very extreme limits on abortion that are wildly
unpopular, even with people, some people who consider themselves pro-life.
You know, there is a certain segment of pro-life voters that do not want 14
year olds who are, you know, raped by an uncle to feel like they shouldn`t
have access to an abortion. Obviously, that`s a very extreme example. But
even, you know, 5, 10 weeks you look at the Texas bill that Beto is running
the ad against that Errin reference, it`s a five week ban. That is an
extremely unpopular position.
And so the Republicans have found themselves in the sour spot on this,
where they`re playing to, you know, the 20 percent of the country that have
the most extreme views on abortion, and they`re leaving on the table Aa lot
of people in the big middle. And I think that is what we saw in Kansas and
in New York 19. And we`re going to continue to see.
And just really quick, there`s proof that Republicans recognize this. We`ve
already seen one candidate Blake Masters in Arizona kind of add today that
changed his position from that extreme personhood amendment. Heartbeat bill
back to well, actually, I only support banning abortions in the third
trimester. And the fact that you have a candidate on the ballot and
purposely changing their position shows they know that they`re on the wrong
end of this right.
MENENDEZ: Errin,at a rally earlier tonight for Wes Moore, the president had
some pretty strong words for voters. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The alternative to the Democrats are the MAGA
Republicans. The MAGA Republicans have awakened to the powerful force in
America, the women of this nation. MAGA Republicans don`t have a clue about
the power of women.
Let me tell you something, they are about to find out. The MAGA Republicans
don`t just threaten our personal rights and economic security. They`re a
threat to our very democracy. They refuse to accept the will of the people,
they embrace, embrace political violence. They don`t believe in democracy.
This is why in this moment, those of you who love this country, Democrats,
independents, mainstream Republicans, we must be stronger, more determined
and more committed to saving America than the MAGA Republicans are
destroyed America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ: Errin, the message discipline there on not just calling them
Republicans but calling the MAGA Republicans. I think that goes back to
something that Tim was saying, which is this is not just about conservative
voters, this is about voters somewhere in the middle, appealing to them,
appealing to people who might be registered as Republicans who may still
consider themselves Republicans, but want to distance themselves from this
idea of being a MAGA Republican, who want to say there`s a part of this
that I still believe in. But there`s a part of this that I have to
fundamentally reject. Is this all a preview of what we`re going to see in
the next few weeks?
HAINES: Well, Alicia, I think it`s not only a preview. I think it`s a
continuation or maybe even an evolution of where Joe Biden, where President
Biden started when he launched his campaign for president, right. His whole
mantra in the campaign is, you know, this is not who we are. And I think
that what we seen over the course of the past few years is well, this is
who some of us are.
And so it`s more of a question of, you know, is this who we want to be? And
so I think that is the pitch that he is making the American people headed
into these midterms, particularly, you know, not just women who we know are
the deciders of elections. And I can say that every year because women are
more than half the electorate but, you know, appealing to and really trying
to separate mainstream Republicans, Independents, people who might be open
to really addressing the threats to democracy that we know are a concern
for a lot of Americans and the erosion of rights. That seems -- that is
certainly a trigger for many Americans, because that is in the DNA of who
we are, as a country, the protection of rights.
Appealing to those folks and really trying to separate them from the MAGA
Republicans calling those that group of people are very specifically.
[23:40:03]
I think it`s intentional but like I said I think it may also be an
evolution of his message on really, bipartisanship and unity, or he can
establish that with.
MENENDEZ: Tim, I want to layer on to Errin`s excellent analysis there that
I also think there is something that`s sort of unique to the MAGA
Republican. And this is an idea that Donald Trump drove himself, which was
this idea that the American dream was dead. That was almost the only way
you ever heard him talking about the American dream.
And so I think that has left a lot of room for Democrats to run on this
idea that we still can have a bright future that there still can be
opportunity, and the possibility that there can be voters who are not
Democrats who buy into that notion, right, what Errin was just saying
about, it`s about the future, the future you want to live in, it`s not
about the past.
MILLER: I think this is why President Biden was successful in the last
Democratic primary, actually, because he really channeled kind of an
optimism that former President Obama put forth. When, you know, there`s a
moment really in both parties where there`s a lot of negativity and down
talking of America. I think that if you just look at the candidates on the
ballot right now.
There`s a lot of Republicans running on this kind of American carnage
around President Trump`s inauguration speech, it`s called American carnage
kind of message, you know, look at the difference between JD Vance`s, you
know, very negative view of elites and the fact that America, you know, it
could be coming to an end. And, you know, we need this radical change, you
know, the populist nationalists, you know, to bring us back to the 1950s,
you know, compare that to, you know, Tim Ryan running, you know, on his ads
which have been very, no, let`s build more things here. You know, much more
kind of in the lines of, you know, what you would have seen from an Obama
Democrat or even, you know, some echoes of Reagan kind of messaging, if you
look at his ad.
So, I do think that`s a stark contrast between where you know, how both
sides are trying to position themselves in this midterm and I think that
you just have to admit that Trump`s, you know, kind of MAGA American
carnage cloud is hanging over a lot of these other candidates on the
Republican sides messaging.
MENENDEZ: And those voter registration numbers they just do not lie. Tim
Miller, Errin Haines, thank you both so much. Coming up, we get an
insider`s perspective into a newsroom, dividing America for profit.
Political Analyst and author Chris Stirewalt joins us live when THE 11TH
HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:47:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Mr. Stirewalt, you were at the decision deaths at
Fox News on election night. And you called Arizona early for President
Biden, which was controversial. How did you make that call and where did
you think the race stood in the early hours of the next day?
CHRIS STIREWALT, FORMER POLITICAL EDITOR AT FOX NEWS: Well, it was really
controversial to our competitors who we beat so badly by making the correct
call first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ: The controversy was not limited to professional jealousy. Indeed,
former Fox News Editor Chris Stirewalt testify that network`s correct call
of Arizona for Biden enraged the Trump campaign and Republicans. Stirewalt
wrote in his book, quote, amid the geyser of anger in the wake of the
Arizona case, Senator Kevin Cramer, Republican of North Dakota, called for
my firing, and accused me of a cover up.
Chris Stirewalt is with us tonight. He is now a politics editor for News
Nation, and his book is called "Broken News: Why the Media Rage Machine
Divides America and How to Fight Back." Chris, thanks for being with us.
How did we get to a place where correctly, correctly interpreting election
results leads to this kind of tantrum?
STIREWALT: Well, I think what happened over the course of -- I`ve been
fortunate that my career began sort of at the end of the era of newspapers
and big three television, and has crossed over into the very fragmented
media space that we live in now.
Unfortunately, to get and maintain audiences, you in this very fragmented
space, it`s very tempting to cuss at them, to flatter them to tell them
only what they want to hear, and not what they don`t want to hear, right.
People want to hear that we`re good and they`re bad. We`re right. And
they`re wrong. We`re smart, and they`re dumb.
If you do this long enough, and I think for a number of Fox viewers, this
was the case that they had been cosseted for so long, that when I came
along and took away the ice cream and replaced it with green beans, when I
came out to defend our call, and proudly defend our call, that that was
seen not as information, but betrayal. And that`s what got me to write this
book and thinking about this, about the dangers that come with high levels
of emotional engagement and emotional attachment to the news. That`s not
good.
MENENDEZ: Were you surprised when it happened? Or could you have seen it
coming?
STIREWALT: Oh, you know, the secret is in this business I don`t know what
your experience is. But the secret of this business for me is to not think
about that jazz too much. Right? You got to do that, as my old daddy used
to say the time to decide whether or not you want to kill a deer is before
you go hunting. So you just go do -- you try to do the next right thing and
you go out and go do the stuff.
If you think about which party it`s going to make angry or which candidate
is going to make angry or who`s going to do whatever, how it`s going to
affect your popularity. If you get to that point, you`re not making any
decisions at all then you are a vassal to public sentiment and you are a
vassal to this very angry political space that we live in.
[23:50:09]
MENENDEZ: I want to ask you about one of the stories we`ve been following
tonight, several Fox News personalities are being questioned in the
Dominion voting machine. $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit. Why was the
network seemingly all in on the Dominion conspiracy?
STIREWALT: Oh, I don`t know about all that. I knew -- I know that I worked
at Fox at the time germane to this lawsuit. So I`m going to be very careful
dude. And stay as far away from this one as I possibly can. Wish everybody
well, I hope they find a way to resolve this.
MENENDEZ: I want to go back to the title of your book, the second part of
the title, which is how to fight for -- how to fight back, you say we
turned politics into a reality show and got reality show caliber
politicians. How do you fight back? How do you come back from that?
STIREWALT: So you and I have special obligations as journalist. We have
special obligations to the Constitution, and the rights that we are
afforded. We can have fun, we can make it interesting, we can make it good,
we can tell jokes, we can have a great time. But if we know that the work
that we`re doing is harmful to the Republic, then we must not do it. We are
obliged to not do it.
But there is a corollary for news consumers to how you consume news, what
you do in your own news consumption is part of your civic obligation. You
have civic duties as a news consumer to be well informed, to hear different
points of view, to understand what other people think, to consume enough
information so that you`re a good decision maker.
If you are like a hamster with one of those drip bottles, they`re in the
cage, feeding off of one source all of the time, and getting one steady
stream of stuff, you`re not doing a good enough job as a citizen. So out of
patriotic love, we should try to do more, to be better, and but social
consumers for each other. This is an act of love to be well informed and to
think about aspirational fairness.
MENENDEZ: I`ve got about 30 seconds left, but I wonder if you have any
reason for optimism.
STIREWALT: I have tons of reason for optimism. I have two brilliant sons
who are great human beings and the future is going to be good. And here`s
why. Because when we get sick and tired of being sick and tired, people
change their behavior. We`re seeing it already. And aspirationally fair
journalism is making a comeback, and I`m really proud to be a part of it.
MENENDEZ: Chris Stirewalt, thank you for your time tonight. Coming up.
Blending the new with the not so new that surprised you at reminding how a
mutual love for music can bridge generations when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:57:26]
MENENDEZ: The last thing before we go tonight and it is a good thing.
Uptown Girl at the garden. That was 19-year-old pop sensation Olivia
Rodrigo performing her hit song Deja Vu at Madison Square Garden just last
night. Well, the catch, it wasn`t actually her concert. A clue is in the
lyrics of the clip we just played. I`ll bet that she knows Billy Joel
because you played her Uptown Girl. That is right. The 73-year-old piano
man himself introduced Rodrigo midway through his show last night. It told
the crowd that he and his kids like her music and that she was quote, very
talented.
Now you most likely know Olivia Rodrigo, if you are a member of Gen Z, if
you are raising a member of Gen Z or maybe because you have recently had
your heart broken and listen to her record on repeat. Or you just might
remember her from her visit to the White House last year to help promote
COVID vaccinations among young people.
Either way, a 54-year age difference seemed to make little difference as
she and Joel perform Deja Vu and the aforementioned classic Uptown Girl,
the song that hit the charts nearly 20 years before Rodrigo was even born.
Take a listen.
I, your resident mortgage millennial loved at this crossover event because
it proves Gen Z and baby boomers can apparently agree on at least one
thing. Everyone seems to love an uptown girl.
And on that note, I wish you a good night from all of our colleagues across
the networks of NBC News. Thank you for staying up late. We`ll see you at
the end of tomorrow.
